KASPAROV SPEAKS
AFTER GAME 5
FEBRUARY 16, 1996
VICTORY !!!
(Applause.)
Mr. Seirawan Absolutely great victory, Garry. Before the game I know you were very, very tense. Tell us your feelings before the game and how it got better for you.
Mr. Kasparov I was very hesitant before the game because I felt that it was time to change my opening. You know, normally I stick with my favorite opening, and I don't betray my opening, but I felt that I had to find something, and my choice was the Petrov defense, and normally you play with Black when you want to have a safe game, draw, but I decided that the positions in the middle game, they are quite complicated. You know, I wanted to play certain positions that could be unpleasant for machine. That was my estimation, and I was very surprised when it played immediately knight to E3. If it plays instantly, it was prepared. I'm very surprised that they played the opening. I think I played it two times in my life.
(laughter.)
Mr. Kasparov One was against Karpov in the world championship match, and I tried to see what he could play was wide because I had difficulty with wide pieces against Karpov, and I wanted to turn the table on that.
And another one I think I played against Kramnik in New York when I had to make draw, played very quickly and we reached a position. I realized the ideas of the team that was preparing the machine because they wanted to have own position where the pieces can move, and there is a very little strategical ground and machine can make a serious mistakes, and I think bishop E7, move C6 and bishop C7 is not played often, and we reached a position, I think, you know, that for a moment I was thinking about bishop take D4, knight H five, exchange everything and just force a draw, but then I thought there is only one chance if I exchange these two bishops, dark square bishops, then if I exchange bishop on knight, I could have certain advantage with my queen, pawns in the center, certain advantage and for machine the danger could be quite far. For machine it was difficult to understand, but it played a great move C4, absolutely, wonderful move and after C4 again I was hesitant. I think I could force a draw by taking on B2, but again, I decided to play bishop D7, and, you know, sometimes we repeat the same mistakes -- not mistakes, but I expected that any human being on bishop B7 would take on D5 and knight B3 which is a very natural move to put knight on B3 and queen comes on D4 and after knight B2 and I had an interesting move in my mind, knight G4.
When white had certain difficulties because if queen comes on D4, I attack on H2. Maybe it was D6. It weaken the position. Maybe it could be a bit unpleasant for white. Sorry. Computer took on E8. Yes, yes, yes. That is why it looked so good for white. When it took on E8 which I did not expect. I would play probably bishop B five and it would be draw. And after taking on E8 and knight G4 is quite unpleasant for white because Black comes on E five and yes, that creates certain confusion. And suddenly played D-2 and was a pleasant surprise. And B3 and here B3, I offered draw after rook D8 because I saw that my only chance to win was five and I was a bit behind, short on time, and I saw F five. I have to open position, and in fact the position is Black is slightly better, but after queen E3 I think the game would be draw in a few moves, and, you know, I have to praise the scientists that would like to make this experiment.
(Laughter.)
Mr. Kasparov They decided to play, and I'm wondering what was the DEEP BLUE evaluation of this position because in the future the computer would be stronger if he doesn't have any advisors.
(Laughter.)
Mr. Ashley Cold-blooded.
Mr. Kasparov I still believe from machine's point of view it is hard to imagine that white could have serious winning chances and in fact we see an interesting situation, any human being could probably make a draw without great difficulties. Now, machine in fact lost this position within five moves because the moment when it was pinned on D line, the game was basically over. It had some tactical chances but the game was basically over. It is quite funny because machine did something that again it is about Yasser's question what is the rating of the machine? Now, sometimes it plays great chess, but here it definitely played on a low level. These four or five moves did something that again nobody would ever consider. We just are scared to put rook to be pinned on D line and then especially what black played A five and it looks very dangerous because White's pawns advantage on the queenside is very theoretical. It will never push. Knight on D-4 is hanging and the potential king could be exposed after four, and according to the team of my opponents, the machine realized that it was in deep trouble after F4. But it was quite clear, you know.
Yes, queen C3. I'm not -- bishop F7, I'm not sure bishop F7 is the best move. Maybe rook D5 was stronger, but I wanted it put on my bishop. I wanted to protect everything because I felt it is a chance. It is a chance and also bishop H five was a potential threat and I realized the game is over. But G 3 is great -- no, what was it, bishop F-7 -- no, rook D-2. Here I would be sorry about bishop F7 because I could play knight E2, I guess. Knight E2, and now again I don't know. Black has choice either to take on C3 and rook C-8 to play with rooks, but I'm not sure, or just to take on D2, queen A1 check, knight C1 and maybe D-five, definitely Black is better, but again it is better, but it's not winning. Maybe it's winning. Maybe machine saw that it would be over. G five and white definitely is in trouble because it is very difficult to move the pieces, but still it is not lost. It is computer's best chance because after rook D5 the game was over clearly. Rook D5 was the final touch and white cannot take on a four because --
Mr. Seirawan Later you are conducting the attack masterfully, but you slipped somewhere.
Mr. Kasparov A3 is a typical computer move because it probably -- what I understand is it sees that everything is losing. That's why it plays E3 which prolongs the resistance. The line I calculated was if it takes on F four which -- no, B4 instead of A3, G takes F4, queen takes F4, queen E3, rook G five check, king H1, queen G4, queen G 3 and E3.
Mr. Seirawan That is opening up the diagonal.
Mr. Kasparov Yes. Yes. Bishop now -- this bishop plays its role, its dominant role. After A3 -- first of all, it is quite clear that position is lost because machine spent about 15 minutes. When it spends so much time instead of three regular minutes it means that it cannot find any move. Position is so bad that there is no move, and it is now trying to play longer because otherwise you would find something. After A3 I think I had to play queen E five and then I just probably would go to the same line after G takes 4 because after queen E five. E3 is the final threat, and I don't think white could do anything but take on F4 and just to go to the same position, but again you want to play safe, king H7 and I think machine found a unique defense.
(Laughter.)
Mr. Kasparov King G2, I play queen E five and I definitely expect in the human game, resignation. It is. It is still losing but you can lose your head because F3 and I probably, if I had more time, I would play bishop G6 or H five. Now I saw oh, my God I have to win a piece.
Mr. Seirawan This you could calculate absolutely.
Mr. Kasparov I could calculate. And what is important I saw that in the end game I had a very pure winning. Bishop C4 and D5 otherwise could be complicated.
Mr. Seirawan Exactly.
Mr. Kasparov I spent lost energy and lost minutes to calculating that, and then I just looked for some other options, you know. What else? It bothered me for a while; that is, after E3, machine was thinking. It means that probably rook D3 was losing faster. Maybe there was another win quicker than just this end game because otherwise machine would not spend more than three minutes on rook G 3. Again, I did not have enough time. Bishop to G6 it takes on G4, it is too complicated. Still I believe there were some other options.
Mr. Seirawan You didn't seem pleased after you played E2.
Mr. Kasparov For a moment I thought it is over, and suddenly I had to go on play and I wanted to finish the game quicker, but it took a bit more time. Again, you have to go to the end game and the number of pawns is limited and for a moment human being could be scared.
(Laughter.)
Mr. Seirawan We have a question from CNN that the young lady would like to ask you.
PARTICIPANT Without analyzing the game, from the personal point of view, how do you feel?
Mr. Kasparov I feel very happy. I feel very happy.
(Applause.)
Mr. Kasparov I think it is normal feelings because very few people could expect before the match that it would be so difficult. Remember where I was after game 1 and today is really good day, you know. I am pleased when I secured a draw in the match, and what is very important, you know, I proved that even this machine is not invincible, and if we concentrate, if we use our potential, we are still on top.
(Applause.)
Mr. Seirawan At this moment I would like Garry to take three questions.
(Audience commentary.)
Mr. Seirawan What do you rate your chances if the computer had played B4?
Mr. Kasparov End game is lost completely. It could be probably longer, but the chances are very, very, very slim. I think it's -- because E five pawn is weak, and H2 pawn is weak and bishop is very good. You know, B4 is quite a natural move. You put pawn on the Black square. Maybe king F2 is better.
Mr. Ashley You don't think rook E7 would have offered the computer more chances?
Mr. Kasparov I think the end game is absolutely winning. Don't forget my bishop is right square. I could take on B3 and rook A4, exchanging rooks. Normally bishop always wins against two pawns especially if the pawns are blockaded because my king, it will be won. Bishop is very, very good when the pawns are on two different sides. That's why I was a bit reluctant to go to the end game but I wanted to finish the game before, but I thought fine, and in end game at least Garry made peace and sooner or later I win it.
(Audience commentary.)
Mr. Ashley Will you play for a win or draw tomorrow?
Mr. Kasparov I can be sure that the team of my opponents would reject drawn at any moment. I think, you know, it very difficult to play for a draw because you can't program the computer to play for win. I don't believe you could do it really, just to change the computer's algorithm because it has to win with Black pieces tomorrow. I'm not going to change my strategy. I will play good game.
(Applause.)
Mr. Kasparov Also with white pieces I had very good position and I hope that tomorrow will not be an exception.
(Audience commentary.)
Mr. Ashley How many moves ahead do you generally think. I imagine you have been asked this question about a million and 1 times.
Mr. Kasparov It depends on the position. Normally I would calculate three to five moves. You don't need more, but in the position when it is a forced line, you know, even with our incomplete brains I can make probably ten, 12, 14 moves, if it is a forced line, and I feel that it is very difficult to escape. That is something you can do. You don't do it very often, but I mean during the games of that match and during an analysis before the game, I checked my abilities and probably because we are playing too often with the computers now we are trying to calculate their routine. I would say it is five moves, but I can go much deeper if it is required.
(audience commentary.)
Mr. Seirawan What were the reasons for the draw?
Mr. Kasparov I was really behind on time, if you saw it, and to play an open with your king you try to play it real safe. I knew that tomorrow -- today my goal was not to lose but to play really safe because it is a match where I normally had certain problems with Black pieces. Definitely more complicated play was Black because I could not dictate the rhythm of the opening and I had my hopes with game 6, but again, it happened today.
Audience commentary.
Mr. Seirawan We are going to have one last question and wish him well in his game tomorrow.
(Audience commentary.)
Mr. Ashley The question at the world champion, what would you do to improve the computer's algorithm.
Audience participation.
Mr. Kasparov I think the excitement of that event, the team of the scientists that made this magnificent machine never in my opinion, just to contemplate human thinking, just to build something similar. This is a pure brute force and that makes this contest so exciting in my opinion, is what you can do is just calculate more because I think that here first time we are seeing something intelligent because when I play chess, what I do is always try to reduce the number of mistakes. I know that I shouldn't go here or there. My intuition, my general knowledge, you know, it is in my hands. All I know is don't go here or there. It is stick with this line. Now, here we have an interesting expert at which point of calculation the machine can also reduce the number of mistakes and will not go the wrong way, and that's why I think that if they continue this development, if they increase the speed of calculation, we have to find out some really interesting things, again at which point human intuition could be matched by computer's power of calculation and that is -- that makes this contest, this experiment most exciting.
Mr. Seirawan With the thought better luck next time.
(Applause.)
(Proceedings ended at 745 p.m..)
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